Chase filed complaint against Lt. Gov. Zuckerman Zuckerman’s offers of menstrual products to lawmakers prompted reprimand from House speaker

By Sarah Mearhoff
©2024 VTDigger

In early 2023, House Speaker Jill Krowinski, D-Burlington, issued verbal and written warnings to Lt. Gov. David Zuckerman after state legislators reported feeling uncomfortable when Zuckerman offered them access to a supply of menstrual products located in a drawer in his chief of staff’s office.

Krowinski and other top Statehouse leaders got involved in late January that year after “a number of individuals” reported to her office similar accounts of uncomfortable conversations initiated by the lieutenant governor concerning menstrual products, the speaker confirmed to VTDigger in a written statement Monday.

At least two lawmakers brought these reports to Krowinski’s office at the start of the 2023 legislative session, according to Krowinski. At the time, Zuckerman — back in the Statehouse after a two-year hiatus — was inviting first- and second-term legislators to his office for one-on-one introductory meetings, according to several lawmakers and Zuckerman.

After the legislature’s own internal investigative committees determined that they lacked jurisdiction over Zuckerman because he’s a member of the executive branch, Krowinski called a meeting with the lieutenant governor and other legislative leaders on Jan. 27, 2023, to discuss the allegations and issue him a verbal warning, she recounted in her statement.

Krowinski then sent Zuckerman a written warning, obtained by VTDigger, in which the speaker asked the lieutenant governor to read and watch Statehouse sexual harassment training and policy, remove the menstrual products from his office and, “Consider meeting with House members in the company of others.”

“Offering feminine hygiene products in an office and seeking out women to let them know about the availability is not acceptable,” Krowinski wrote in the letter, dated Feb. 2, 2023. “While you may have good intentions, it has left women feeling very uncomfortable and unsure why they were chosen or why it became a topic of conversation with you.”

The Speaker’s Office verified to VTDigger the authenticity of the letter and its contents.

Zuckerman, a longtime Progressive and Democratic politician, told VTDigger in two interviews on Monday that he’d made the offers in an effort to be a “very inclusive, welcoming lieutenant governor.” With his chief of staff’s office located across the hall from the women’s restroom on the first floor of the Statehouse, he said that “a number of folks found it very helpful to come into the office to get those products when they needed.”

Among the lawmakers who found the conversations upsetting was Rep. Heather Chase, D-Chester, who filed a complaint against Zuckerman with the State Ethics Commission and two of the House’s internal oversight panels. She said that Zuckerman’s verbal offers were unwelcome from a man who holds significantly higher office than House members, particularly those early in their political careers.

Now, with Zuckerman facing a contested primary election next week, Chase said she decided to go public with her story because “voters should know.”

“I believe that we need political leaders that have some sound judgment,” Chase told VTDigger. “This really indicates, at the very least in my view, some really poor judgment.”

‘I wanted to get out of there’

At the start of the two-year biennium in January 2023, Chase entered the Statehouse as a first-term representative eager to learn the ways of the building and get to work for her constituents.

“It’s not like you’re vulnerable, but you don’t know what you’re doing,” Chase said of a new legislator’s first few weeks on the job. “A new legislator — no matter what age, sex, whatever — you’re not 100% sure. You know, you’re trying to find out where the bathrooms are.”

It was during her second week that a page delivered to her a letter from Zuckerman. In it, according to a copy Chase provided to VTDigger, the lieutenant governor congratulated Chase on her new position.

“I would like to ask you for a brief meeting so I can learn a little bit more about you, your district and your legislative priorities,” Zuckerman wrote. “I am also happy to answer any questions you may have about me. As a former Representative and Senator, I also want to offer to be a resource for you as you take on this new role in the legislature.”

Intuitively, I felt very uncomfortable — that I needed, I wanted to get out of there. I felt like his reason for having me there was not for him to hear about me, but for me to hear about him and his accomplishments and how important he was in the building.

Rep. Heather Chase
Chester

Chase said she tucked the message into a pile of papers and forgot about it until the following week, when Zuckerman’s chief of staff, Lisa Gerlach, emailed her to follow up. Chase recounted that, upon receiving that message, she felt like she was “dropping the ball, and this is an expectation of me.” She quickly emailed Gerlach back, according to copies of Gerlach and Chase’s email correspondence, which Chase also provided to VTDigger. They scheduled the meeting for Jan. 19, 2023.

When she arrived for her 4 p.m. one-on-one meeting with Zuckerman, Chase recounted, he greeted her by saying, “Call me David.” They sat down — Chase’s back to the door — and discussed similarities between their fathers’ careers (both were medical doctors) and shared their legislative priorities. At some point, Chase told VTDigger, the conversation began to feel “competitive.”

“Intuitively, I felt very uncomfortable — that I needed, I wanted to get out of there,” Chase told VTDigger. “I felt like his reason for having me there was not for him to hear about me, but for me to hear about him and his accomplishments and how important he was in the building.”

According to Chase’s retelling of events — as well as a stream-of-consciousness recounting she penned two days after the meeting, dated Jan. 21, 2023, which she provided to VTDigger — Zuckerman told Chase she could come into his office anytime if she needed to make a phone call, take a meeting, have a cup of coffee or generally collect herself.

What I worked to do was offer information about — and welcoming and inclusive information, frankly — about how the system works. That it’s actually an amazing place, because there’s dozens of people who want to share with you information about any topic you’d ever want to explore.

David Zuckerman
Lieutenant governor

It’s an offer that Zuckerman told VTDigger he’s made to dozens of legislators, regardless of gender, party affiliation or seniority. He told VTDigger that he held one-on-one meetings at the start of the biennium with legislators in their first and second terms. Having been out of office from 2021 to 2023 after making an unsuccessful run for governor, Zuckerman said he sought to introduce himself to legislators who didn’t already know him.

“What I worked to do was offer information about — and welcoming and inclusive information, frankly — about how the system works,” Zuckerman said. “That it’s actually an amazing place, because there’s dozens of people who want to share with you information about any topic you’d ever want to explore. I also indicated — something that you could ask any legislator, everybody has said this — that sometimes it can also be like high school. And so it’s a great place, and it can be funky all at the same time.”

Chase had a different recollection of Zuckerman’s portrayal of the Statehouse atmosphere in their meeting.

She told VTDigger that the lieutenant governor said his office could be a refuge from the chaos of the rest of the Statehouse, and a rare private space in the small, public building. According to Chase, Zuckerman told her that “the press is going to be after you” and that legislative leadership can behave “like a bunch of schoolgirls, high school girls, maybe, who will talk behind your back, stab you behind your back.”

As for the latter accusation that he equated legislative leadership to “schoolgirls,” Zuckerman told VTDigger, “I will categorically deny ever saying that.”

“I did talk about, as I said earlier, it can be like high school in this building,” Zuckerman said, “but I never equated any, either age or gender, to anybody in the building.”

In her complaint to the State Ethics Commission, signed and dated Feb. 10, 2023, Chase wrote that she was “offended by (Zuckerman’s) remarks and (that) the subtext of the conversation was disturbing.”

“I believe this was an abuse of power inviting female legislators into his office to create an impression that I needed a safe space and his protection,” Chase wrote. “This feels manipulative and creates a hostile work environment.”

Asked to respond to Chase’s characterization of the meeting as manipulative, Zuckerman told VTDigger, “People have every right to have their interpretation of events.”

“My work and the meetings I had with dozens of people and their responses to me had all felt like it was a very positive and welcoming situation,” Zuckerman said. “I can’t speak to what an individual’s experience was. That’s their truth and their experience. As I indicated earlier, when the speaker told me that there was an individual that felt uncomfortable, the first words out of my mouth were to express my deepest apologies, because that was the farthest from anything I intended. But I also wanted to take ownership if I had caused that kind of sentiment.”

‘Totally creeped out’

On her way out from her meeting with Zuckerman, Chase recalled, the lieutenant governor made her a final offer: Located in his chief of staff’s office, which is adjacent to his own, was a free supply of menstrual products “in all sorts of shapes and sizes.”

“I was totally creeped out,” Chase said.

While Zuckerman said he did not recall the exact wording he used when offering menstrual products to lawmakers, he told VTDigger that he “was euphemistically speaking to the fact that there is a wide range of products.”

‘I certainly have learned from many that there could be any number of reasons someone may not need these products, and I learned that I should not make any reference to that at all.  And so I no longer do. But I certainly did not say, ‘because of your age.’ ‘

David Zuckerman
Lieutenant governor

“There are pads, there are tampons, there are tampons with applicators, without,” he told VTDigger, adding.  “As you probably know, biologically, there are different rates of flow. I have a wife and a daughter. These are common conversations in our household, and so I was attempting to indicate whatever one might need would hopefully be in supply, in the drawer.”

According to Chase, Zuckerman added a caveat to his offer, telling Chase that she may not need the products “because of your age.” Chase was 61 years old at the time of the meeting.

Zuckerman strongly denied ever addressing Chase’s age. But he did confirm to VTDigger that he added the caveat that she may not need the products herself, saying, “I did, and I take full responsibility for that and apologize,” he said.

“I certainly have learned from many that there could be any number of reasons someone may not need these products, and I learned that I should not make any reference to that at all,” Zuckerman said. “And so I no longer do. But I certainly did not say, ‘because of your age.’”

Asked if he said that same caveat to any of the other legislators to whom he offered the menstrual products, Zuckerman said, “I don’t remember every conversation I had because I had over 40 conversations.”

In her Feb. 2, 2023, letter to Zuckerman, Krowinski wrote, “It is a generally acknowledged professional practice to not discuss someone’s age in the workplace unless it is a mutually acknowledged and accepted topic of discussion.”

“With that said,” Krowinski added, “talking about someone’s age in relation to menstruation is unacceptable.”

Zuckerman promptly removed the menstrual products from his office, he confirmed to VTDigger, after meeting with legislative leadership and receiving Krowinski’s letter.

Rep. Tesha Buss, D-Woodstock, told VTDigger that she attended a one-on-one introductory meeting with Zuckerman, after the menstrual products had been taken away and Zuckerman was no longer making the verbal offers. Buss did, however, discuss the meeting with Chase immediately after it took place.

Buss told VTDigger that Chase appeared “very noticeably physically and psychologically shaken by this.”

“She tried to process and justify maybe his behavior was normal, but kept saying, ‘None of it feels like it’s normal,’” Buss said.

‘Maybe I was too far ahead of the curve’

In her written statement to VTDigger, Krowinski said that “a number of individuals had come forward” to her office in 2023 “with their concerns around interactions and meetings with the lieutenant governor.”

Another first-term female legislator spoke with VTDigger on the condition of anonymity, fearing political retaliation if she spoke freely. She said that by the time she received her invitation to meet one-on-one with Zuckerman in January 2023, she had already heard from her colleagues that his offerings of menstrual products were a “primary topic of discussion.”

Asked who was discussing the interactions, the lawmaker said, “I feel like everybody was.” She added, “Like, all of my female colleagues were talking about the invitations they were getting and how awkward it was.”

In hopes of avoiding the conversation altogether, the lawmaker said she opted not to take the one-on-one meeting.

“I declined to talk about feminine hygiene products with … let’s say, a male colleague in a leadership position, who I do not know personally,” she said.

But despite expressly trying to avoid the discussion, the lawmaker said Zuckerman approached her and brought it up unprompted. Not long after receiving her invitation, the lawmaker said she accompanied a colleague into Gerlach’s office to grab a cup of coffee. She said Zuckerman emerged from his adjoining office, said hello to the legislators, and the “first topic” he broached was to offer menstrual products. The lawmaker said she was uncomfortable and quickly left.

“It made it an office that I then avoided,” she said.

Asked to respond to the anonymous lawmaker’s account on Monday, Zuckerman declined.

‘In general, I’m really grateful that men are talking about menstruation. People menstruate. And it may be easier, because I’m a nurse, to talk about bodily functions, but I feel it’s really important that we, as a culture, are able to talk about menstruation.’

Rep. Mari Cordes
Lincoln

“I was working to make an inclusive space available to everyone, period,” he said.

He then addressed the reporter directly: “And if you’re going to continue down this line of all kinds of conjecture and asking my opinion or how I feel, I feel terribly sad that in this day and age, a man cannot talk about pure biology and making a space that has historically been very male dominated, more inclusive for women.”

“Now, maybe, like many other issues, I’ve been out ahead of the curve, and maybe I was too far ahead of the curve and made people uncomfortable,” Zuckerman continued. “Once I learned that, I adjusted my conversation and removed the products. I’m not sure there’s much more to it than that.”

Not all lawmakers said they were offended by the lieutenant governor’s overtures.

Rep. Angela Arsenault, a first-term Democrat from Williston, told VTDigger in a written statement that she “experienced the Lt. Governor‘s offer of free menstrual products as a misguided, but no less sincere attempt to be supportive and inclusive in a space that has not traditionally been supportive and inclusive of women.”

‘That we need the lieutenant governor to somehow get these poor women menstrual products is pathetic. We all were voted in by our constituents. We figure out how to drive here. We park our cars. We get a place to live. We organize our homes so we can be away. We do this. We juggle everything.’

Rep. Heather Chase
Chester

Arsenault told VTDigger that Zuckerman made her that offer after their initial introductory meeting, in the Statehouse cafeteria. He prefaced the comment by telling Arsenault that he had forgotten to mention it previously, she said.

“It’s important to acknowledge that every person’s experience is valid, and every person’s story is their own to tell,” Arsenault added. “I’d like to see situations such as this handled through a restorative approach with compassion, accountability, and education.”

Rep. Mari Cordes, D-Lincoln, said she thought Zuckerman was “attempting to be supportive and normalize conversations around menstruation.” She said she did not recall whether Zuckerman offered her any menstrual products.

“In general, I’m really grateful that men are talking about menstruation,” Cordes said. “People menstruate. And it may be easier, because I’m a nurse, to talk about bodily functions, but I feel it’s really important that we, as a culture, are able to talk about menstruation.”

Chase is also a nurse. But to her, Zuckerman’s offer of menstrual products came across as “so condescending.”

“That we need the lieutenant governor to somehow get these poor women menstrual products is pathetic,” Chase said. “We all were voted in by our constituents. We figure out how to drive here. We park our cars. We get a place to live. We organize our homes so we can be away. We do this. We juggle everything.”

“And he’s going to —” she trailed off. “That is so condescending and not even close to his lane.”

No jurisdiction

Last January’s leadership meeting, which culminated in Krowinski’s letter, was prompted, in part, by a lack of other enforcement mechanisms available to House members, according to those familiar with the matter.

In her written statement to VTDigger, Krowinski wrote that representatives with accusations of workplace misconduct “are encouraged to contact the appropriate panel whether it be our Sexual Harassment Prevention, Discrimination Prevention, or Ethics Panel,” which have internal investigatory power.

“However, in some cases, these panels don’t have jurisdiction over the individuals involved and, in such instances, my office must step in to address the matter,” Krowinski wrote.

Chase told VTDigger that she did attempt to go through all of the official channels, having filed a complaint to the State Ethics Commission, and offered testimony to the House Sexual Harassment Prevention and Discrimination Prevention panels. She was told, though, that the panels didn’t have jurisdiction over the executive branch.

Asked about the situation this week, Rep. Mollie Burke, P/D-Brattleboro, who chairs the House’s Sexual Harassment Prevention Panel, told VTDigger, “We realized we had no jurisdiction over the issue.”

“We sort of realized that we had no jurisdiction over the governor or any of the statewide officials,” Burke said. “We were sort of trying to figure out: How do we honor somebody who came forward with a complaint, without being able to do what we would normally do in an official panel?”

It was then that House and Senate leadership stepped in.

“In this particular instance, a number of individuals had come forward with their concerns around interactions and meetings with the lieutenant governor, and recognizing that our panels did not have the ability to investigate the allegations, I believed it was imperative that a meeting was scheduled and a plan put in place to end the behavior,” Krowinski wrote on Monday.

According to Krowinski’s letter to Zuckerman, “several complaints” about Zuckerman’s “conduct” resulted in the January 2023 meeting between Zuckerman and legislative leadership — including Krowinski, House Majority Leader Emily Long, D-Newfane, Senate President Pro Tempore Phil Baruth, D/P-Chittenden Central, and Senate Majority Leader Alison Clarkson, D-Windsor.

In a written statement to VTDigger, Baruth said that, as Senate president pro tem, his leadership role includes “extensive personnel management duties inside the Statehouse.”

“Most of that work is confidential. My office doesn’t comment on meetings involving those matters,” he continued. “With that said, we take complaints extremely seriously. We have fully functioning ethics and sexual harassment panels, and if formal complaints are filed, those panels pursue the case to its conclusion. That conclusion determines when and how they share information about the complaints before them.”

Baruth has endorsed Zuckerman in the latter’s reelection bid this year. Neither Long nor Clarkson responded to VTDigger’s requests for comment.

‘I’ve done what I could’

When Chase got word that the House investigatory panel couldn’t take up her case, she said her internal reaction was, “OK, I’ve done what I could.” From her perspective, she said, she exhausted all of the official channels she could, and her work on the matter was done.

“My motivation in telling people was, I didn’t want other women being brought in there in that way,” Chase said. “And I really believe that people, we all, deserve to have some honest feedback when we do something that’s wrong or doesn’t sit well.”

That was until this spring — more than a year after that first meeting with Zuckerman — when she said she was told that Zuckerman requested to see her testimony offered to the panels, and to enter his own version of events into the record.

Asked whether this was the case, Zuckerman told VTDigger, “Actually, I never went to the panels themselves, because I did not have access to meet with the panels. I simply asked a lot of questions about process.”

When pressed about to whom he asked these questions, Zuckerman said, “This is a confidential process. I have no comment.”

“If anything, that’s actually the biggest part of the story,” Zuckerman continued. “This is a confidential process, and either someone on the panel, or someone else who heard from someone on the panel, has somehow gotten information that they have disclosed to you. That is a remarkable violation of process. Is it not?”

Burke declined to confirm or deny to VTDigger whether Zuckerman attempted to enter his version of events into the record this spring, citing the confidential nature of her panel’s work.

Chase told VTDigger that when she learned that Zuckerman had revisited the matter this spring, she was “blown away.”

“That move of Zuckerman’s made me feel and believe that he did not take the opportunity of this experience for self reflection and personal growth,” Chase said. “I went to trusted colleagues, and I told them, and none of us could believe that he was bringing this up again. So I felt attacked. I felt, I want to say, somewhat threatened.”

One of the colleagues Chase confided in was Buss, the latter confirmed to VTDigger this week. It was at that point, Chase said, that she began to seriously consider going public with her story, and wanted to do so before Vermont’s primary election on Aug. 13. Zuckerman faces a spirited challenge from Thomas Renner, a Democrat and deputy mayor of Winooski. Whoever prevails will appear on November’s general election ballot.

Chase said that despite the paper trail she has, she knows that “people still question your motives.” But, she said she believes “voters should know.”

“I didn’t come here (to the Legislature) to get experience to be governor, right? I came here to do this job … which is a very different perspective than when I was 40,” Chase said. “In this circumstance, I didn’t really feel I had a lot to lose. Whereas, I think other women might, because he’s a powerful man and he’s in a powerful position.”